Hello - I have a Pocket PC (iPAQ by HP, h4150, 1.0), it is running
Windows CE 4.20

I think it is running Pocket Internet Explorer. My question before I
go into details of why, is can I update the browser that ships with
Windows CE? I can't find it anywhere on MS site.


I'm developing an ASP.NET (2.0) application that will be used by
these
Pocket PCs and regular PCs.. I've got my application serving
different
displays depending on if the request comes from Windows CE, or
Windows
XP.


I'm finding large limitations in the browser that Pocket PC uses..
since Visual Studio's asp controls use lots of CSS on the browser end
when the controls are rendered.. for instance


Visual Studio: <asp:TextBox id="tb" runat="server" Width="60px" />
IE : <input type="text" size="15" name="tb" id="tb"
style="width: 60px;" />


Now IE 7 renders the textbox the correct width, PIE does not. I
figure
there is some updates for the browser that will allow it to parse CSS
better. Is there an update to the browser, and where?

Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Thu, 17 Jan
2008 10:52:37 -0800 (PST), sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do
microsoft.public.pocketpc, yawatina tan reek esk Kbalz
<Kurtas.Balczak@gmail.com> fornis do marikano es bono tan el:

>Hello - I have a Pocket PC (iPAQ by HP, h4150, 1.0), it is running
>Windows CE 4.20
>
>I think it is running Pocket Internet Explorer. My question before I
>go into details of why, is can I update the browser that ships with
>Windows CE? I can't find it anywhere on MS site.

There's one in development (I'm on a beta waiting list), but it's not
available yet.

Try Minimo and/or Opera?


deKay
--
Lofi Gaming: www.lofi-gaming.org.uk [Gamertag: deKay 01]
Gaming Diary: www.lofi-gaming.org.uk/diary/
My computer runs at 3.5MHz and I'm proud of that
"Zomoniac is wrong"

>> I'm finding large limitations in the browser that Pocket PC uses.. <<

<grin>

Short answer, there is no "upgrade" to pie but there are alternatives,
so, welcome to the club...

the answer lies in your goal...

do you want your pages to display on all pocketpc's...

....or do you plan to require upgrades for all pocketpc's who may visit
your pages?

If the former, the key is to understand pie's capabilities and
options... for example, the multiple display modes and the "assumed
default" for screen size not being the same as the screen size...
confused yet? ;-)

If the latter, there are alternate browsers available as well as a
couple of pie "helpers" ...google time.

Personally, my suggestion would be to learn the ppc's capabilities and
write for those so that loading software is not necessary to visit your
pages.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

On Jan 17, 2:48*pm, "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]"
<BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:
> *>> I'm finding large limitations in the browser that Pocket PC uses.. <<
>
> <grin>
>
> Short answer, there is no "upgrade" to pie but there are alternatives,
> so, welcome to the club...
>
> the answer lies in your goal...
>
> do you want your pages to display on all pocketpc's...
>
> ...or do you plan to require upgrades for all pocketpc's who may visit
> your pages?
>
> If the former, the key is to understand pie's capabilities and
> options... for example, the multiple display modes and the "assumed
> default" for screen size not being the same as the screen size...
> confused yet? ;-)
>
> If the latter, there are alternate browsers available as well as a
> couple of pie "helpers" ...google time.
>
> Personally, my suggestion would be to learn the ppc's capabilities and
> write for those so that loading software is not necessary to visit your
> pages.
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

Its actually just for our company intranet, there will be 8-10 of
these Pocket PCs held around our shop floor, as well as a few PC
stations. So I would be able to manage upgrades needed for Pocket PCs
yes. Minimo seems to be a dead project, I'm trying the beta version
that is available for 4.2 at the moment. I'll look into Opera, but my
first thought was that you had to pay for their mobile version. I
finally got the serial connection working to it so I'll try these
helpers! Thx,

On Jan 17, 3:44*pm, Kbalz <Kurtas.Balc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 17, 2:48*pm, "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]"
>
>
>
>
>
> <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:
> > *>> I'm finding large limitations in the browser that Pocket PC uses..<<
>
> > <grin>
>
> > Short answer, there is no "upgrade" to pie but there are alternatives,
> > so, welcome to the club...
>
> > the answer lies in your goal...
>
> > do you want your pages to display on all pocketpc's...
>
> > ...or do you plan to require upgrades for all pocketpc's who may visit
> > your pages?
>
> > If the former, the key is to understand pie's capabilities and
> > options... for example, the multiple display modes and the "assumed
> > default" for screen size not being the same as the screen size...
> > confused yet? ;-)
>
> > If the latter, there are alternate browsers available as well as a
> > couple of pie "helpers" ...google time.
>
> > Personally, my suggestion would be to learn the ppc's capabilities and
> > write for those so that loading software is not necessary to visit your
> > pages.
>
> > Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
>
> Its actually just for our company intranet, there will be 8-10 of
> these Pocket PCs held around our shop floor, as well as a few PC
> stations. So I would be able to manage upgrades needed for Pocket PCs
> yes. Minimo seems to be a dead project, I'm trying the beta version
> that is available for 4.2 at the moment. I'll look into Opera, but my
> first thought was that you had to pay for their mobile version. *I
> finally got the serial connection working to it so I'll try these
> helpers! Thx,- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Minimo is OUT.

straight html:

<table><tr><td>Test</td><td>Test2<td></tr></table>

Displays:

Test
Test2

Wow!

Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Thu, 17 Jan
2008 13:15:08 -0800 (PST), sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do
microsoft.public.pocketpc, yawatina tan reek esk Kbalz
<Kurtas.Balczak@gmail.com> fornis do marikano es bono tan el:

>Minimo is OUT.
>
>straight html:
>
><table><tr><td>Test</td><td>Test2<td></tr></table>
>
>Displays:
>
>Test
>Test2

That doesn't seem right to me at all. If that were the case, all tables in
Minimo would be broken, and they're not.

deKay
--
Lofi Gaming: www.lofi-gaming.org.uk [Gamertag: deKay 01]
Gaming Diary: www.lofi-gaming.org.uk/diary/
My computer runs at 3.5MHz and I'm proud of that
"Zomoniac is wrong"

Suggestion...

If you can put up sample pages (with no sensitive information) on a
public website and write a bit more about your goals with those as
examples, there are a number of people here who can help.

Tables are a "non issue" and should work fine... in addition they are
excellent tools for rendering displays easy to access on a ppc... here
are some tips...

REMOVE _ALL_ "width" statements no matter what they refer to from the
html... this includes both pixel and % values.

LEFT JUSTIFY... don't "Center" as the "center" of a 240x320 ppc screen
is 320 pixels from the left edge... or 80 pixels from the right edge (go
figure)

Use a left justified single cell table to "center" content... "DEFAULT"
will deal with the cell and content centered in the cell will end up in
the center of the ppc screen.

"DEFAULT" does a good job on simple html pages... the question is if can
you get the users to set it?

Don't use explicit font sizes, but use relative (i.e. +2) and "go big"
....things that are easy to read on a PC need reading glasses on a ppc.

No java

Onward... through the fog.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

Let me just point out a couple of basic truths. There have never been
upgrades to the version of PIE on a particular device. There have been
upgrades to PIE that came with new OS releases, and those came if you had
the opportunity to upgrade your device, or bought a new one.

The 4150 is an old device. It runs PPC2003. Since then is PPC2003SE (Second
Edition which actually was more significant an upgrade than the name
implies), Windows Mobile 5, and Windows Mobile 6. The 4150 has no upgrade
path to any of these.

PIE has changed a lot since PPC2003, but I certainly couldn't guess if the
changes would help you. I would suggest following Bev's suggestion to put a
sample page up somewhere so that folks could try it for you with WM5/6, and
let you know, or get a WM6 device and test it. You are working with a device
3 generations, and at least 4 years, behind. For a current similar device
take a look at HPs new iPAQ 111 (
http://www.shopping.hp.com/product/handheld/PC/1/storefronts/FA979AA%2523ABA
)

If getting current PPCs isn't an option, and it may not even be a solution,
then I would consider developing in VB or C+ for the PPC side of the system.
I am assuming you are working with some sort of DB backend, as you are
working with ASP. PPCs of the 4150 era did support DB connections quite
easily with ADOCE, and the forms were relatively easy to construct with the
development tools of the time.

--
Sven
MS MVP Mobile Devices
"Kbalz" <Kurtas.Balczak@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f4bd39dd-9380-4770-828a-65b19a814c6f@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 17, 3:44 pm, Kbalz <Kurtas.Balc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 17, 2:48 pm, "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]"
>
>
>
>
>
> <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:
> > >> I'm finding large limitations in the browser that Pocket PC uses.. <<
>
> > <grin>
>
> > Short answer, there is no "upgrade" to pie but there are alternatives,
> > so, welcome to the club...
>
> > the answer lies in your goal...
>
> > do you want your pages to display on all pocketpc's...
>
> > ...or do you plan to require upgrades for all pocketpc's who may visit
> > your pages?
>
> > If the former, the key is to understand pie's capabilities and
> > options... for example, the multiple display modes and the "assumed
> > default" for screen size not being the same as the screen size...
> > confused yet? ;-)
>
> > If the latter, there are alternate browsers available as well as a
> > couple of pie "helpers" ...google time.
>
> > Personally, my suggestion would be to learn the ppc's capabilities and
> > write for those so that loading software is not necessary to visit your
> > pages.
>
> > Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
>
> Its actually just for our company intranet, there will be 8-10 of
> these Pocket PCs held around our shop floor, as well as a few PC
> stations. So I would be able to manage upgrades needed for Pocket PCs
> yes. Minimo seems to be a dead project, I'm trying the beta version
> that is available for 4.2 at the moment. I'll look into Opera, but my
> first thought was that you had to pay for their mobile version. I
> finally got the serial connection working to it so I'll try these
> helpers! Thx,- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Minimo is OUT.

straight html:

<table><tr><td>Test</td><td>Test2<td></tr></table>

Displays:

Test
Test2

Wow!

Try disabling SSR. It's enabled by default, as has also been explained in
the Web Browsing Bible at
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=1828&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
(see the row "Fit-to-screen (tested with the PPCMag test)?" of the chart at
http://www.winmobiletech.com/032007WebBrowsers/chart.html )

A screenshot showing this:

http://www.winmobiletech.com/032007WebBrowsers/MinimoSSRDisbale.bmp.png



--


--
Werner "Menneisyys" Ruotsalainen - Microsoft MVP - Windows - Mobile Devices
Please see the Pocket PC Mag Expert Blog (including mine) at
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/ - you will definitely like it.


"deKay" <andyk@deleteme.lofi-gaming.nospam.org.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:noivo3tt52hp1bi8vhevan3tkv3cd78m66@4ax.com...
> Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Thu, 17
> Jan
> 2008 13:15:08 -0800 (PST), sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do
> microsoft.public.pocketpc, yawatina tan reek esk Kbalz
> <Kurtas.Balczak@gmail.com> fornis do marikano es bono tan el:
>
>>Minimo is OUT.
>>
>>straight html:
>>
>><table><tr><td>Test</td><td>Test2<td></tr></table>
>>
>>Displays:
>>
>>Test
>>Test2
>
> That doesn't seem right to me at all. If that were the case, all tables
> in
> Minimo would be broken, and they're not.
>
> deKay
> --
> Lofi Gaming: www.lofi-gaming.org.uk [Gamertag: deKay 01]
> Gaming Diary: www.lofi-gaming.org.uk/diary/
> My computer runs at 3.5MHz and I'm proud of that
> "Zomoniac is wrong"

As a generic answer, make sure you thoroughly read my Web browser-related
articles; most importantly, the Bible available at
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=3&p=1828&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 .
I've very thoroughly elaborated on the HTML, AJAX, JS, CSS etc. compliance
of all current browsers.

Based on this info, you'll be able to either pick an alternative browser or
simplify your markup / code so that it becomes compatible with the indeed
not very capable IEM.

--


--
Werner "Menneisyys" Ruotsalainen - Microsoft MVP - Windows - Mobile Devices
Please see the Pocket PC Mag Expert Blog (including mine) at
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/ - you will definitely like it.


"Kbalz" <Kurtas.Balczak@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0432446d-9510-449f-861a-129ca91efc6f@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hello - I have a Pocket PC (iPAQ by HP, h4150, 1.0), it is running
> Windows CE 4.20
>
> I think it is running Pocket Internet Explorer. My question before I
> go into details of why, is can I update the browser that ships with
> Windows CE? I can't find it anywhere on MS site.
>
>
> I'm developing an ASP.NET (2.0) application that will be used by
> these
> Pocket PCs and regular PCs.. I've got my application serving
> different
> displays depending on if the request comes from Windows CE, or
> Windows
> XP.
>
>
> I'm finding large limitations in the browser that Pocket PC uses..
> since Visual Studio's asp controls use lots of CSS on the browser end
> when the controls are rendered.. for instance
>
>
> Visual Studio: <asp:TextBox id="tb" runat="server" Width="60px" />
> IE : <input type="text" size="15" name="tb" id="tb"
> style="width: 60px;" />
>
>
> Now IE 7 renders the textbox the correct width, PIE does not. I
> figure
> there is some updates for the browser that will allow it to parse CSS
> better. Is there an update to the browser, and where?
>

On Jan 17, 4:40*pm, deKay <an...@deleteme.lofi-
gaming.nospam.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
> Soni tempori elseu romani yeof helsforo nisson ol sefini ill des Thu, 17 Jan
> 2008 13:15:08 -0800 (PST), sefini jorgo geanyet des mani yeof do
> microsoft.public.pocketpc, yawatina tan reek esk Kbalz
> <Kurtas.Balc...@gmail.com> fornis do marikano es bono tan el:
>
> >Minimo is OUT.
>
> >straight html:
>
> ><table><tr><td>Test</td><td>Test2<td></tr></table>
>
> >Displays:
>
> >Test
> >Test2
>
> That doesn't seem right to me at all. *If that were the case, all tablesin
> Minimo would be broken, and they're not.
>
> deKay
> --
> Lofi Gaming:www.lofi-gaming.org.uk*[Gamertag: deKay 01]
> Gaming Diary:www.lofi-gaming.org.uk/diary/*
> My computer runs at 3.5MHz and I'm proud of that
> "Zomoniac is wrong"

As stated below your post, by default they are broken. There is an
option called SSR that needs to be disabled to make the table work.

This worked for me.

Minimo *does* render the CSS controlled TextBox correctly directly out
of Visual Studio. Is browses slightly slower than PIE.

As for the other replys, thanks. We just bought this one 4150 off
ebay, for test development. I will recommend when we purchase the lot
for use that they are an updated model for sure. I will probably have
to adjust the look and feel to adjust to a newer model but that is not
a problem.

Sorry but ASP.NET 2.0 with C# is the only option, as I am not the only
one on this project and the roots of the project are already well
established, turning to a different language is not going to work
here!

Do the updated PIE versions that come stock on udpated PocketPC (or
similar handhelds) properly render CSS controlled elements of a page?
I'll read your blog as well,thx.